Rebecca Bloom spent twenty-six years as a workplace benefits attorney watching women struggle to ask for help. She joins Holly to talk about how to actually advocate for yourself when a diagnosis turns your life upside down.
You've always been the one who handles things. The one who remembers the appointment, fills out the form, makes the follow-up call nobody else wants to make. So when you're the one who gets sick, some part of you expects to run it the exact same way. Alone, and without asking.
But you can't be the patient and the person managing everything at the same time.
Rebecca Bloom has spent more than twenty-six years untangling exactly this, first as a workplace and benefits attorney, then as a patient advocate. She's the author of When Women Get Sick, and on this episode she walks through why navigating a diagnosis feels so much harder than it should. Doctors who don't have time to explain. Records meant to connect your specialists that end up confusing everyone instead. Bills that make no sense and take real effort to fight. None of it is a sign you're doing something wrong. It's a system built around efficiency and dollars, not around you.
Her answer is to build a team before you ever need one. An actual org chart, with a chief of staff who takes the calls and tracks the paperwork, so you're not running the system and healing from it at the same time. It starts with something simple. Letting yourself ask for the help you've spent your whole life giving to everyone else.
The answer for me, from years of experience, is draft a team. Build a team for yourself.
You get a diagnosis. And the only thing you should have to think about is taking care of yourself.
That's not what happens. You're on hold with your insurance company. You're asking one specialist's office to send records to another, again, because it still hasn't happened. You're nodding along in an appointment to words you've never heard before, too overwhelmed to stop and ask. And somewhere in there you have to tell your employer something.
That's the part Rebecca understands better than almost anyone. Not the medicine. The maze. She spent twenty six years watching women get lost in it while they were trying to get well.
Her answer isn't to get better at it. It's to let people in, which she says is its own kind of generosity.
It's easier to let someone help when you already know who that someone would be. These questions are about the people in your life, and what you'd actually be willing to ask of them.
Who in my life is the organized one? The person who keeps track of dates, reads the fine print, and doesn't lose the paperwork.
Who would I want sitting in an appointment with me, writing down what I won't remember afterward?
When someone asks what they can do to help, what do I usually tell them? And is that answer honest?
What am I handling myself right now that someone else could handle just as well?
Who has offered before, and did I ever take them up on it?
Patient advocate and former workplace benefits attorney
Rebecca Bloom spent the first part of her career as a workplace benefits and compensation attorney. That knowledge turned personal when her mother was diagnosed with breast cancer and Rebecca found herself navigating the system on her behalf.
She went on to volunteer at Bay Area Cancer Connections, where she helped thousands of women through breast and ovarian cancer treatment over more than two decades. Her book, When Women Get Sick, came out of that work, written for the woman who has just been handed a diagnosis and has no idea where to start.
A few trustworthy places to learn more, in your own time, including the tools mentioned in this conversation.
The information shared in this conversation and on this page is provided for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for medical or other professional advice. Always consult a qualified healthcare or mental health professional about your individual circumstances.
If this conversation made you want to ask better questions at your next appointment, or made you realize there's a lot you still want to understand about this season of your life, you're exactly who this community was built for.
Holly: Rebecca Bloom is a former workplace and benefits attorney and author of When Women Get Sick. She spent the last 26 years as a patient advocate, helping women navigate a health crisis from the inside.
Her book is her answer to the question so many women ask themselves the day they get a hard diagnosis: Where do I even start?
If you've ever felt like the healthcare system was speaking a language you weren't taught, this episode is for you
Holly: Rebecca, thank you so much for taking the time and being here with me today
Rebecca: Oh, I'm so happy to be here, Holly. Thank you for having me
Holly: I am really fascinated by your career because for a part of it, you spent, um, your time helping big companies figure out their employee health benefits. And then it seems like things got a little personal for you, and you needed to help the people that you love the most figure those same things out. what do you understand from the inside that most people will probably never see?
Rebecca: Well, you know, as you mentioned, I had this, uh, this corporate law background that was very specific, I say it's rare because it's 1% of any big law firm. You know, this employee benefits, it's super niche. Um, and I have to say, I didn't know that I was gonna end up flipping the script the way I did, as you described.
It's like, I learned all this stuff and I really thought, "What am I gonna do with this?" I mean how do you... If, if I don't stay here, when am I ever gonna use this again? I really thought that, until my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer. So the reason why that, why, why that knowledge and that training was so interesting is because I understood that none of it is really personal.
When it, when you get a letter or you, you know, you get told you're denied, I think people take this inside their bodies and they go, "Oh my God, why would they deny me?" And I understood from the other side, this is a machine. This whole thing is a machine. The metaphor that runs this machine has nothing to do with anything personal, and it really has nothing to do with healing.
It has to do with efficiency, and it has to do with dollars. So in knowing that, it helps me help women not flip out and overreact and get into this all is lost mentality when something goes sideways on a health journey, particularly as it pertains to health insurance, because something will go sideways.
But I understand that there's all these mechanisms in place to optimize for dollars on the other side. And because I came from it from the corporate side, I understood it really well. It's like, how do they make decisions? How do they decide which insurance company to go with? Well, they go, "Who pays our employees' claims and doesn't give us a headache?"
So then when we pay a lot of money as a customer supporting our employees, they get the best we can hope for. That's how employers make the decisions, right? And I also knew that health insurers made the decisions based on, well, you know, when can we put out a bill and expect somebody to pay for it where we don't have to pay for it?
When can we do that denial? When can we save money? You know, that, that's how they think. That's how they do business. So having that in my head, but without, you know, sort of the outrage and the emotion, just the understanding that hey, this is how it works, so if they push like this, you know, you can push back.
And it's just kind of a conversation that you're having to try to get to the right result. It's not a disaster automatically. You know, you're on a health journey. You need to focus on healing. That's the part you should worry about. This part you can be dispassionate about. I learned that by seeing the corporate side of it.
Holly: You know, when I was, um, reading your book, and I have a copy of it right here, When Women Get Sick, the thing that stuck out to me was that when your family faced it, when your mom got sick, she had your dad, and who is a lawyer, and she had you, who is also a lawyer. Like, you had a lot... She had a lot on her side, you know? And unfortunately, so many women, that woman who's newly divorced and is living with her teenage daughter who finds herself in this position,
Rebecca: Yeah
Holly: and she's alone, and it's scary. Like, where does she even begin?
Rebecca: Yeah. So you're right, my mom had it good. Um, and, and we're so grateful. It's gonna be her 88th birthday this fall. Uh, we're all so grateful, and yet I still saw the things that can go wrong, right? And so that's exactly the question I asked myself. Well, if sh- if it's hard for her, what do we do with that single mom?
How do we do this?
And the answer for me, from years of experience, is draft a team. Build a team for yourself. If you don't have the in-house counsel that my mom had, I mean she really had it, she had at times two, then you think about who do you know? What organizations are you connected to? How can you consider managing the, the project of getting better?
You know, project management for project healing, that's what I call it. You know, how can you line up your ducks in your life? Think about the social capital that you have. Think about the places you're connected. Think about the places you could connect to, like a disease-specific organization, and fill out your personal org chart about, how do I get through this?
Who's good at which job? who's the person that would write the appeals for me? That would be a me-type person. Is my neighbor the person who could just walk in and do the laundry for me? Maybe so. Drop off extra dinner? Maybe so. Maybe that's a different friend. Maybe that's a different neighbor.
Who's gonna drive the carpools?
But you don't even have to be the one to make that decision if you choose yourself a, what I call a chief of staff. Who's that one person, that whistle, clipboard, organization guru? Who's that person who can take this on for you and help manage it and help lift out all these extra stressful parts so that you can focus on communicating with your doctors, getting the rest you need, making sure you're doing all the right things to support your own health journey?
Holly: I, I loved that part of the book when you talked about having a, naming a chief of staff. And, it's surprising. It shouldn't be surprising because there are people in your life when you ask for help, people are so happy to respond, even those that you don't, you know, might be a little bit further removed from your circle. People wanna help
Rebecca: I agree, Holly. And you know, one of the things I always say is the ask matters, too. You know? And, and the offers matter. W- if somebody just says, "Oh, I'm here for you. Just call me if you need anything," that's hard. That puts the onus back on the patient, and that's, that's like a mental load, right? But if you are able to organize yourself with a good team in place, they can do the asking in a strategic way.
And the fact is, you're right, people like to help. And you know what, else they like to do? They like to do stuff they're great at doing anyway. So, you know, if you're the chef and you cook beautiful food, is it really such a big deal for you to make a little extra and drop it off at your friend's house who's sick?
No, you love it. I mean, it's part of your life's purpose, right? It's no- not a big deal. So it's that matching of the people and what they're good at and what they love to do that makes a big difference, too. I love beating up insurance companies. I love the appeals. I enjoy it. The more they send me AI, the more I send them AI back.
To me, it's a game, you know? I'm a lawyer. So, you know, so I... It's really important to match people with what they love to do. You know how sometimes somebody gives you, like, a gift that you don't really want? Like, let's say they b- let's say they bake cookies and you're, like, on a diet, but they just want you to eat those cookies, right?
Um, okay. Well, okay, but what can you learn from that? You can learn that that person really loves to nurture with food. So if you ask that person to be on the nurture with food squad, they're gonna do a great job and they're gonna like doing it, right?
Holly: Or you, you have that person that organizes every block party, so you know that they could figure all those things out. Just say, "Can you help me out here?" Like, it's okay, it's okay to ask for help
Rebecca: Absolutely. And you know, some people are great with a spreadsheet, like you said. You know? They can, they can whip out a, a, a meal train for you in five minutes, you know? So it's, it, it is. It's finding ways to ask people things that they're willing to do and capable of doing. Anybody who does something that they're capable of feels purpose when they do it.
We know this, so that's how it works
Holly: know, years ago, a- and I feel like even when I was growing up, there was a, everybody went to the same doctor. Like, everybody in the family went to the same doctor, and y- you were able to call the office and get an appointment or get a prescription. And now it seems as if we have to go through a series of prompts every time we call, and maybe we'll get somebody who's just reading from a script and asking the same questions. And I know you talked a little bit about this in the book. What happened to healthcare?
Rebecca: So many things happen to healthcare, but if I had to bring it up high, I'd say it's greed. I'd say it really has turned into an industrial complex. You know, back in the '50s, we used to talk about the military industrial complex. Well, now we've got the healthcare industrial complex. That's really what it is.
And so, so greed is, is around every corner now, and it's nobody's fault, but it's everybody's fault. You know what I mean? Like, there are so many startups and so many device companies and, you know, y- you gotta have, you know, the electronic health records. Well, all of these things cost money, and all of these things have become big businesses, and there's a lot of dollars flowing back and forth.
So everybody's pushing now towards the electronic health records because all of the big medical systems bought into that. So, you know, they're, they're doing it in part to save having a bank of people answering telephones all the time, right? That's, that's-- they're saving money doing that, and it's become part of the culture, and it is a lot harder.
But that segues into something else that I always share with people. Don't assume that your doctor loves the electronic health records and that your doctor is just waiting for you to send them a message in the portal so that they can answer you within 48 hours. Ask them, because a lot of the times I have found many of the doctors that I interviewed and many of doctors who I know personally say, "Oh, you know, that's just like another job for me to have to check that.
Um, a lot of the time, the people in my office are the ones doing it for me and helping me anyway. Leave me a message. I'll call you on my way home. This is easier for me, too." You know? And it often is. I mean, even to the point where many doctors w- are gonna give out their cell phone numbers and tell their patients, "Hey, just text me and we'll jump on a call."
I mean, a- and they do it because, frankly, it's easier for them, and if they've established a good rapport with these patients and there's 360 respect, I think they feel comfortable that nobody's gonna abuse the privilege. No one's gonna call them in the middle of the night, and they're not gonna escalate non-emergencies.
It's, it's just an easier way for everyone to communicate because, as you say, a lot has happened. All these new layers of, of tech and complexity have gotten in the way of human-to-human communication.
So, you know, it's not always great, and I think a lot of the really good doctors and nurses, too, know that.
Holly: that's a relationship that involves a lot of trust. serious consequences are associated with whether or not this person makes the right decisions by you.
Um, are there questions that you want every woman to ask her doctor?
Rebecca: Yeah The first is, how would you like me to communicate with you when I have questions? Should I bring them in and just read them off to you? Should I make a hierarchy of the most important ones in case we don't have time? Should I send the rest to you in the portal? Would you like me to send them to you before our appointment?
These are really big things that just smooth the way. What else? What constitutes an emergency in your mind? When should I call and have you paged if I have a question or a complication? Those are really big things. Another thing is, are you okay with me having, um, a third person in the room, an advocate with me?
That would really help me. Are you comfortable with that? You know, some of them will just say, "Yeah, of course." And some of them will say, "Yeah, you gotta sign a HIPAA piece of paper." No, almost none say no. They never say no. Why would they? Um, but just talking about that, um, and then linked to that, um, if I do my own research or my advocate helps me do research, do you want to know if I find a medical trial or a study or anything like that?
Is that helpful to you, or is that annoying to you? You know, have you already done that work such that you really don't want me to do it? Um, you know, is it okay if I come and ask you about things like that? Some doctors say, "Absolutely, I welcome it." And then I have other friends who are doctors who say, "You know what?
Please don't do that. You're gonna go off the deep end. You're not gonna understand every single thing about it. It's probably not gonna apply to you, and then you're gonna spend all this time and energy on it, and, you know, trust me, I got it." You know, different doctors have different opinions on that.
They're all really busy. They've all got the pressures on them that they have. But those are things to talk about in advance. And then there's just the human stuff, you know? Um, is there anything I can do to communicate with you best? Are there specific kinds of ways that you would like me to describe my symptoms that would be helpful to you and that would make this process run more smoothly?
Just things like that. Like, sometimes doctors say to me, "I wish people would just take a minute and be a little more specific. Instead of saying, you know, 'My stomach hurts,' let me know it's your upper left quadrant, because that will help me get to the answer more quickly." You know, things like that. Like, be a good partner.
So those are the kinds of questions I usually, um, have people ask doctors. Another one is just sort of like more, um, you know, how would you describe your style? You know, because some people want a doctor who, who, who's really a manager, um, and who says, "This is what I always do. This is what you should do."
Some people want a doctor who says, "Here's all the options that are available to you. I want you to know all of them, and then I'll tell you which one I recommend." You know, that's a, that's a style that a doctor might have. And I think those are things that are really important, you know, because not everybody wants the same thing in those relationships.
So I think asking a doctor is important, and it also makes them feel like they're a partner in this, in this journey, and like you respect who they are and how they like to do things
Holly: Yeah, 'cause in some cases you're meeting this person for the first time, and, um, if you've ever had that experience where, like, maybe I just didn't connect with the doctor, if I had said, "Can you, you know, can you explain it to me this way," or, "Can we have a different type of connection or rapport?" It might make all the difference
Rebecca: Oh, yeah. I mean, we're all humans, including doctors and nurses, and, you know, it, it, because we're all humans, we're all gonna either get our back up or relax based on how the person we're interacting with treats us. And, you know, if you've treated me with respect and you need to be fit in at the end of my day on a really busy day, I'm probably a lot more likely to fit you in, right?
Holly: Um, if you find yourself in the role of being an advocate for somebody, how should you behave, I guess, when you're in the doctor's office, when you're at the hospital? W- how should I be acting?
Rebecca: So that's an excellent question too. And remember, I, I mentioned the, the notion of a third person, right? You're not the person's bulldog lawyer. You're not there watching the doctor 'cause they're... You're waiting for them to say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing or take advantage. You know, it isn't that kind of approach, and I've, been in these rooms, I've done this so, so very many times.
It's all about respect.
And, you know, because I have the training as a lawyer, I'm able to walk into a room with full respect for somebody who even is my adversary. Um, but this isn't even that. This is, this is all about cooperating. You're more, um, a translator and a calming element than you are, you know, a, you know, a representative.
You're not really a representative. You're, y- you're trying to make sure that the patient understands all the things that are being said. You're trying to make sure that they're calm enough to ask all the questions they wanna ask, and that you understand the path forward.
So like I said, it really is more like being a translator than it is like being, you know, a go punch somebody in the face advocate to get the result you want, you know?
Holly: That's right. Is it okay to take notes?
Rebecca: Absolutely. Yeah. And, and I'm glad you asked that because I think a lot of people today dispense with taking notes because of the electronic health record, and they say, "Oh, well, why, why am I bothering to take notes? I can look it all up." Well, let me tell you why. Because first of all, there's a lot of cutting and pasting going on with the electronic health records.
There's also a lot... So there- so you get a lot of repetition. You get a lot of chunks of text that just get put in because everyone's trying to save time. This thing that was supposed to save time actually takes time. Um, you know? And this thing that was supposed to facilitate communication between specialists ends up more often confusing patients.
That's really the truth of, of how it's all worked out. So, so yeah, there are things in the electronic health records, but if you don't read that stuff every day, there's a lot of codes, there's a lot of abbreviations. There's a lot of things you're gonna have to look up anyway. So to me, it does make sense to either take notes or record if the doctor says that's okay, whichever you prefer, so that you can hear it the way you process language, you know?
I think that makes a big difference. You know, people always say, um, there's a lot of, of, uh, mental health benefits and cognitive health benefits from writing things down with a pen. and I think, I think there's something to that. Um, so whether it's the advocate taking notes or it's the patient herself taking notes, either way, I'm all for it.
I... And it also slows everything down just a tiny bit. You know, I know we only have 15 minutes usually, but just slowing things down a little, little bit makes it a little more likely that you're gonna be able to process what you just heard.
Holly: You know, you've said, um, in, in the, book that the, the medical part is hard enough when you receive a diagnosis, but it's everything else. It's the bills, and the forms, and the phone calls that really scare women.
Rebecca: They do
Holly: why do you think the non-medical part hits so hard?
Rebecca: Well, again, you know how we talked about how there's all these layers, there's all these layers of complexity, and I mean, that's what it is to interpret laws too. It's never... Like people go, "Is that illegal?" I go, "Well, that's a complicated question." It's always a complicated question. There's always like five things happening at once, all different layers.
You know, this is because the FDA said that, and this is because the FCC said that, and maybe people don't understand it, but that's HIPAA, and you know, there's just all this stuff going on, and it's super complicated, and nobody is an expert in it. You know, I, I do my best, but it's a lot. You know, like, uh, when the ACA was passed, I think the, the bill was 900 pages long.
I read the bill. I think I might be the only person I know who actually read it. It was 900 pages long. You know why? Because it was amending so many different laws. There are just so many things that are brought to bear. There's so much regulation in a, in the medical field, right? Different agencies, different things.
So these papers are all drafted by smart lawyers who are hedging against liability for one specific problem, but there's like 10 specific problems that you have to cover. That's why you got that clipboard full of stuff. You know what I mean? And should it give you a headache? Yeah. Um, and is it antiquated?
I think so. Um, could we dispense with most of this electronically in today's day and age? Yeah. I think we could. I think we could, but, but you gotta realize too that, you know, some things are designed to be confounding, and I think the third-party payer system is designed to be as complicated as it can be so people give up and pay.
I really do believe that. You know, I, I wish it weren't true because it's really dark, but I believe it is true
Holly: Well, uh, okay. Since we're talking about cost, there was something interesting that I was reading in one of your blog posts, and you were, you were talking about the cost of an MRI, and it was for you. Is it okay if I talk about
Rebecca: Of course. Yep, it's out there on the internet. You can talk about it.
Yeah
Holly: and I, I was just, I was so shocked by the... You went for, um, an MRI and the cost was $18,000.
Rebecca: Yeah
Holly: And, you know, when you see that bill and, you know, then obviously patient responsibility, then part of what you talked about in the blog was that there was then, um, a doctor who was doing this imaging in her office, and it was costing $400. Like, how do we go from 18,000 to $400?
Rebecca: exactly what we were saying before. There's too many stakeholders. There's too many layers. Everything going on behind the scenes that we don't see about the real negotiations of the price of that, you know, it's like they start over here, and then every single time it happens, there's a negotiation back and forth, back and forth, back and forth to see what do they really make on it.
So it, it's funny money. I mean, it's funny money. Nobody's really making that much money on such a thing. It's just this game that goes back and forth. It's this, it's this constant ping-ponging around. And even, even then, that day, I think I had to pay $400 as a co-payment,
Holly: Mm-hmm.
Rebecca: and then I got another bill for $1,000.
I didn't even know why. I didn't even... I couldn't, I could not piece together where that bill came from or what it pertained to And I'm embarrassed to tell you I just paid it because there, depending on where you are in your life and what else is going on, you might just not have the bandwidth for such a thing.
Holly: Yes.
Rebecca: And that's not no- that's expensive, but I paid it because I just couldn't handle any more stress
Holly: and I do, I think you're right when you, when you say that there are people who are just like, uh, on top of everything else, I am just writing a check. Goodbye.
Rebecca: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's happened to me more than once that I've gotten a bill that was incorrect. I have fought the ones that I have the energy to fight.
I kinda hate myself when I don't summon the energy to fight it, but everything in life is making choices based on where your energy has to go at any given moment, and that's dependent on what else is going on, right?
Holly: Yeah.
Rebecca: But certainly when you're in the middle of a serious illness, you shouldn't be put in that position
Holly: No
Rebecca: That's why I fight so hard for other women because I just can't stand the injustice of that
Holly: Um, well, and the, I think part of the problem too is that it's, it might be the woman who doesn't have a lot of extra resources, and for her to pay that bill could mean the difference between, utilities and a prescription
Rebecca: Rent, feeding her kid.
Holly: Yes
Rebecca: even, if it's like what we would consider an extra, like her kid's ballet lessons even. You know, whatever it is, it's wrong
Holly: Yeah. It, you brought up stories like that in the book, and I, I think that was one of the choices, was this woman was like, "I could either do this or I could, you know, my child could go to ballet lessons."
And what a horrible spot to be
Rebecca: Horrible. And not only that, a lot of mothers are gonna put their child first, even when somebody on the outside would be like, "What are you talking about, ballet versus your health? Well, it's your health." You know, it, it's not so simple. We don't know. But like I said, the totality of the circumstances always matter.
And, you know, that's not really in the equation, but it is when you're the one getting the bill
Holly: Yeah. Yeah. Um, there's another thing that I keep thinking about, and that's, you know, f- for so many women, and there might be a woman who's watching this right now, who's holding it all together for everybody else, and you talk about this idea in the book about having a safety net. Well, unfortunately, I, I think, and you would understand this very well, women are the safety net for their families.
Rebecca: That's right
Holly: When she's the one who gets sick, you know, where, where does she go from there?
Rebecca: Yeah. Well, that's exactly why I go back to that idea that women should tap the social capital that they've amassed. We never think about it like that, you know? If it was money, we wouldn't even hesitate. If it was real money, dollars, we'd go, "Okay, there's my money in the bank. I'll just spend it." You know?
Um, but because it is, uh, you know, metaphorical, it's just as valuable if you ask me. Um, but because it's metaphorical and not backed by the gold standard or some such, um, people feel hesitant, and they, they don't always feel worthy, and they, y- they can't imagine a scenario under which they ask for that which they have so freely given.
But I'm encouraging people to open, open their hearts to that, and it's not as, um, it's not as hard as you think if you conceive of it as a kind of generosity. It really is a kind of generosity to let somebody else give to you
Holly: Mm-hmm. And,something that we're also getting away from is the sense of community, and I think, um, I, I don't know. I'm sure there's 100 reasons why we, we don't do this. But for example, if you have a neighbor that you always see walks their dog at 7:00 in the morning, and now they're not walking their dog anymore, why don't we reach out more often and, and maybe knock on the door or, or stop by and just say, "Is everything okay?
'Cause I don't see you walking the dog anymore." I, I just, I don't know. I, I feel we've lost a little bit of,
Holly: that human connection
Rebecca: we have, and it's funny, you know, because we talk about it sometimes in terms of privacy. "Well, I don't wanna bother her. I wanna respect her privacy." We don't have any privacy anymore, Holly. We gave it away. Um, so let's be honest about that, right? But COVID really, really knocked us for a loop when it comes to these, um, these loose ties, right?
Those social connections that are maybe not like your Dunbar number inside five close, you know, closest connections, but these are the people that are really part of, of your net as it were, your safety net, and we lost so much of that. We really kinda, you know, closed the windows and closed the doors, and I think we're just reckoning with what that's like.
And really, social connection is, is so important. We know it's a social determinant of health. We're, we're aware of that, and yet we really have to build it back. Uh, it, it's been... It, it's probably a combination of that, and I, I think social media creates more parasocial ties, and they're not really the same.
Holly: No
Rebecca: But we've, we've come to rely on them, plus we're, you know, being fed them constantly and addiction loops have begun to take hold. So I think it's, I think it's a combination of those things, but, but you're right. A lot of what I'm advocating for if you, if you sort of widen the tent on the argument, is really, you know, let's look around and strengthen our social connections, which is healthy for all of us
Holly: Yes. And, and not only just when we're sick, like when a storm comes through or there's some other need in the area that you have people around you that know that something might be wrong or that you witness like that.
Rebecca: Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. You know, I live in northern California. You know, most of the time it's amazing here, but, you know, there's floods, there's fires, there's earthquakes. You know, they don't happen that often, uh, but it- you see what happens to a community when they're under some kind of siege, natural or otherwise, and you say to yourself, "Well, wouldn't it be nice if we could be like this all the time?"
Rebecca: You know? I mean, there was a lot of moments in COVID where people were putting things in the windows and, you know, there were these nice little warm moments that, that were happening. Um, y- you know, uh, I was just laughing. You know, I'm from New York, and I was just back in New York, and I was thinking, "How long is everyone gonna be nice to each other because the next one..."
You know? It's like that same thing. You know?
I hope it, I hope it lasts. Um, but it feels like, you know, probably, probably short-term subway euphoria, right?
Holly: Yes, yes.
That's, that's so true. It's sad, but it's true.
You know, could we talk about work for a second?
Because I just feel that this is one of those areas that, um, we don't think about right away when we do get a scary diagnosis. But for a woman who found themselves in a circumstance where the company didn't necessarily support them.
And so I'm just wondering, like, what, what's that first conversation a woman needs to have with her employer?
Rebecca: Even though this is an unsatisfying answer, I have to say it depends because it, y- you've gotta read the room. You know, if you happen to have a really supportive supervisor and you're, happen to be in a great Circumstance, it could be one thing.
If you're in a situation where you're up for a promotion or a renewal and there are people, you know, snapping at your ankles, it could be a different situation.
Sometimes the play is go directly to HR. Sometimes the play is talk directly to your own supervisor. It just depends. You know, I- we mentioned before, before, uh, we rolled tape that, you know, with the numbers being what they are, if you are not yourself dealing with an illness, you know and love someone who is, pretty much.
So you can assume that most people in the workplace are similarly situated, right? So almost everybody you talk to in the workplace has a mother or a sister or a best friend or a child or a spouse who's been sick, if they haven't been. So they probably have more empathy than you might imagine. But that said, there are workplace dynamics, and there are rules, and there are laws, and there are stressors, and you don't know is, is the company riding high?
That's one scenario. Is the company about to do layoffs? Well, that's a completely different scenario. So that's why I, I believe in 360 thoughtful advocacy and why I think workplace is fully part of the conversation. I know that not all health advocates have this specialized knowledge and experience, and I get it.
But there is this incredible organization called Triage Cancer that has so much information on this topic. It's run by these two sisters who are lawyers, and they have so much information available to people. So if you can't talk to a me, you can get involved with them, and you can get a lot of their free information is available, and they help people too.
Um, so, you know, I think it's a hugely important part of, of the whole dynamic, and I wish I could say to you, "This is exactly what you say no matter what," but it really does depend. No matter what, it is reasonable to say whatever you say with some concern, not only for yourself, but for the team that you work on and the company that you work with.
If you start like that, it's gonna go better.
So let's say, just to spin it out, you're gonna go in and chat with HR, and you're gonna say, um, "I'm gonna be bringing in a note from my doctor next week. Um, I'm gonna be taking Family Medical Leave Act." Um, leave, which is usually unpaid. Um, but before that, I wanna talk about, um, how much PTO I have and whether I can use some of that before I do that.
And, uh, you know, I, I just wanna make sure that I talk to you about this in advance so that we can think through what's both best for the team and best for me and my journey, so that we can just do the best for ourselves and each other. That's the way. Y- you care about them, too. That's all you gotta say.
You want them to care about you. It's reasonable to say you care about them and their concerns and their goals. You don't have to, y- you know, you don't have to kiss up to anybody. You don't have to do back flips. You don't have to come to work when you're not able. You don't have to stay up all night before you take your leave.
You don't have to do any of those things, but you have to show respect. And if you do that, they're gonna work with you, and they're gonna do a better job for you. If you walk in with a kind of a, you know, alarmist or a victim mentality, it's just not gonna go as well. So these are just practical things as opposed to legal ones, right?
Uh, but knowing and understanding what your legal rights actually are is really helpful because then you can walk in with confidence, and you can speak with poise about what it is you need. And again, there's a whole list of ways you can do that. Some people go right to, "I'm having a double mastectomy."
Other people just say, you know, "My doctor says I need time off." You know, and it can be anything in between those two things for the same procedure because your legal right is to not say if you don't want to. That said, I have found for many people that if they just say what's going on, they actually get more empathy and more support because people get it and understand and maybe have been through it themselves.
That's why I say it depends. It is a total read-the-room situation
Holly: I use that term all the time with people because it's surprising how, you show up in places and you, you see a person either very emotional or very just going overboard about something, if you only step back and look around the room, you see that there's a better way of dealing with whatever is happening
Rebecca: Yeah, and I'm not saying don't cry. You know? If you have to cry, you c- you have to cry. I mean, it's okay. You know, not, you know, it- these are, these are dramatic situations, and they're, and they're more dramatic for you than they are for anybody else generally speaking, right? It's okay to be human, but it's also good to be thoughtful and s- think to yourself, "Who am I saying this to?"
You know, you might have, like, a work wife who it's perfectly reasonable to cry to, and that person might even be your supervisor. It's not unheard of, right? That's, that's, that's why I say it just depends. Yeah
Holly: so, and one more time I'm gonna show it. When Women Get Sick. Your book is really about giving women the tools to make the best decisions for themselves, whether it's, it's dealing with insurance or doctors or work, all of those things. How important was it for you to write this book?
Rebecca: It was, it was finishing up an almost 30-year journey of thinking to myself, "I've helped probably thousands of women, and if I do this, I'm hoping I can help thousands more." So it was very important to me
Holly: I just wanna say, um, thank you for, for being here today, and I'm glad that I found you and I found this book because , I hope to never need it, but also for a woman who m- might see herself in this position or know somebody who's in this position, this is a wonderful resource. Where can we find you, and where can we get the book?
Rebecca: So you can get the book any place books are sold, including Amazon, where it seems to be put on sale very often, if that matters. Yes, I'm happy to pass that along to folks. Um, my website is whenwomengetsick.com, and I have Instagram, and that's @whenwomengetsick. And please, I hope everybody knows, reach out to me.
DM me. You can email me through my website. I answer every message because that's how much I care about this. If there's something I can do or something I know that I can share with you, I would like to
Holly: Well, again thank you so much for taking the time and being here with me today
Rebecca: Thank you, Holly. I really appreciate the opportunity
